Friday, November 30, 2012


I want to cover a few things today- not sure how much we will get to.

A few months ago I kept having a ‘thought’- I was thinking about a church/ministry that I have known for years.

They are from Kansas City [the Missouri side].

I have read the pastor’s book- I have met many that were involved in the church/movement- and I even had a good pastor friend who eventually went and joined the ministry.

He held a doctorate in theology and became one of the teachers for their university.

Okay- so- for some reason an image of the ministry kept coming to mind.

Actually- I kept thinking about the off balance of a few things I had heard over the years.

I was thinking about their belief- taught to the students/members of the ministry- that they are all convinced that we are definitely in the ‘end times’ and that they are actually fulfilling a role of an end times prayer ministry that will rise up before the Lord returns [which they believe the bible speaks about].

At its most basic level- this is dangerous to do- for a variety of reasons.

The other thing that came to mind was a simple statement I heard the minister make years ago.

He was mentioning some criticism that their church/university has gotten over the years.

Some of the parents of the kids have said to them ‘but you need to also learn some type of job skills- some type of learning in the liberal arts- you can’t just spend all your time praying and learning about being the Lords end time army’.

When I heard this- I actually agreed with the critic- though I was sympathetic to the ministry.

Okay- after having these things in my mind- for a few weeks [that’s how you know you’re actually praying in a way for them- because you’re thinking about them- even during prayer].

Then I read in my local paper that a kid from my town was I involved in a possible murder plot and killed his wife.

They were involved in the above mentioned ministry.

I went on-line a bit yesterday to read up on it before I comment- I won’t mention the names- you can find that from many other sources.

I just want to mention the danger of various expressions of Protestant ministries- and why this is so.

The other day one of my friends was mentioning some stuff about not being a ‘lone ranger’ in ministry.

And I agreed with him.

But I also reminded him that the church he associates with [Baptist] is in many ways a ‘lone ranger’.

How so?

Depending on what kind of Baptist church your involved with- some are highly ‘lone’- others not as much.

But by ‘lone’ I mean historically they are a church movement that came out of the 16th century Reformation [later on- they were part of what’s called the Radical Reformers- those who took the reforms further than the initial protestors] and in historical terms- they are all ‘rebelling’ against authority.

They left the historic church.

Now- I don’t take this view in a harsh way- I have many good Baptist friends and many good churches are Baptist.

I say this only to give the broader perspective.

Okay- as time progressed [from the 1500’s] you had a multitude of churches/denominations break away from one thing or another.

It's really astounding to see the many divisions that have come since the days of the Reformation [which some Catholic scholars warned would happen].

In these ‘off shoot’ expressions of Christianity- some are less dangerous- others more.

Many cult watchers have lists of what to look for in these movements- and these lists can be helpful.

What I try and tell people [and teach] is if you stay connected as much as possible with the historic church [yes- both the Catholic and Protestant expressions of it] then you are in safe territory.

But if you truncate yourself from 'the church’ then you are heading for trouble.

In the above example- the thing that troubled me was having lots of young kids- on ‘fire’ for God- being taught that they are God’s ‘end time army’.

The actual ones!

Geez- that in itself is really disturbing.


First- I think the Evangelical church has to do some real soul searching about the way she views/expresses the ‘end times’.

The fact that over the last few years some of the best sellers are Tim Layahes books- his End Times series- is troubling.

He gives a very narrow- and skewed view [in my opinion] of the bibles’ teaching about End Times.

I posted the other day from Daniel 12- and I have hinted about these problems over the years.

But some of our view about the end times comes from a miss reading of the actual Greek text.

In the gospels when we read ‘end of the world’- the term actually means end of the AGE.

Okay- that little adjustment alone can change our understanding about lots of stuff.

That’s just one little thing- I have posted lots more over the years.

But the point I’m making is if we have a whole group of fine young people- embracing a view- from the elders over them- that they are indeed the actual 'end time army’ or prayer movement- that was foretold about in the bible- than that’s very disturbing.

When I read about the case yesterday [the ministry is IHOP_ Mike Bickle is the main leader- I won’t mention the name of the local boy who is implicated in the death of his wife].

The church is trying to distance itself from the incident- and to be fair the young kid seems to have started his own ‘break away’ community [which can also be one of the problems with a Protesting position form the start- that is when the actual name of your group ‘Protestant’ seems to say we are nonstop protestors- well that can give rise to the nonstop protests- you think?]

We don’t know all the facts right now- but we know enough to say we- as Evangelicals- as Protestants [which I am] need to make every effort to stay connected to the historic church.

Yes- there are things that Evangelicals disagree with- there are things that the historic early church might view differently than we do.

But- they are our Fathers in the faith.

Over the years I remember a verse that some in the above movement used to mention.

It was a sort of obscure verse found in the Old Testament.

It says ‘don't move the foundation stones that your Fathers have laid down’.

Yeah- I think that verse fits pretty well.

Note- Do me a favor, those who read/like the posts- re-post them on other sites as well as the site you read them on. Thanks- John. Don’t forget to scroll down on the timeline [Facebook] - I have posted lots.

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